My Biggest Obstacle to Plant-based Eating? My Family.

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Commons Team

July 16, 2024

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We heard from listeners that one of the top barriers to eating plant based is who we eat with. So much of our food is rooted in culture and tradition and breaking from the norms of our social circles may create some dinner table friction. But we’re here to help!

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On this episode, you’ll hear:

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Listeners share how they’re family reacted when they started eating plant-based.
Tried and true advice on how to eat in harmony with meat eaters.
How Isaias Hernandez’s family reacted when he became vegan and what his vision of a more equitable plant-based future looks like.
Data-backed responses to the most common questions you mat get as a first-time plant-based eater.

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‍Find Second Nature wherever you listen to podcasts: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

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Here are some of the people you'll hear from in this episode:

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Citations and further reading

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Episode credits

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Listener contributions: Amea Wadsworth, Daria Panova, Diana Holguin, Drew Crabtree, Jacqueline Elliott, Joëlle Provost, Kellie Rana, Kimberly Foley, Lawrence Hott, Sameera Mokkarala, Zach Lawson‍
Featuring: Isaias Hernandez and Sanchali Seth Pal‍
Editing and engineer: Evan Goodchild‍
Hosting and production: Katelan Cunningham

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Full Transcript

Katelan (00:00): Hi, welcome back to Second Nature. This is a podcast from Commons where we talk to people about how they're living sustainably in an unsustainable world. Believe it or not, this is the last episode of the first ever season of Second Nature. It's been such a joy listening to dozens of community submissions and chatting about the topics that chill are passionate about. If you're with us from the beginning, you'll remember that episode one was all about how to start a plant-based eating journey. So we wanted to end where we started. We heard time and time again from listeners that one of the biggest obstacles to starting a plant-based diet wasn't motivation or accessibility. It was family and friends.

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(00:45): I'm your host, Katelan Cunningham, and on this episode of Second Nature, we're talking about how to talk about plant-based eating with our friends and family. We're gonna hear firsthand stories from our community about what happened when they told their friends and family that they wanted to start eating plant-based. And they're giving us some great advice for how to eat in harmony alongside meat eaters. Plus, I'm sitting down with Isaiah Hernandez, AKA brown vegan to hear how his family reacted to his vegan lifestyle. Get tips for having tough conversations with friends and envision what a more accessible future looks like for plant-based eating. I'm also asking Char St. Paul for some plant-based talking points for the dinner table. Here we go.

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(01:32): So, does meat really have that big of an impact on the planet? It definitely does. Meat has a much higher carbon footprint than plant-based proteins. Let me give you an example. 100 grams of beef protein has 190 times the emissions of 100 grams of nut protein. And there are several reasons why animals rack up more missions than plants first deforestation. We are clearing millions of acres of tropical forest each year to create pasture land for cattle. In just four years, from 2010 to 2014, we cleared over 20 million acres globally. That's about the size of Ireland. When we clear that land, we remove billions of plants that are absorbing carbon, and we deteriorate the soil making it less adept for carbon sequestration. We also destroy habitats and ecosystems that are home to thousands of plant animal and fungi species. Another big climate impact of eating animals is that we have to grow a lot of crops to feed them, and we generate a lot of emissions in the process globally, 77% of soy is grown to feed livestock for meat and dairy production.

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(02:41): Can you believe that? And here in the US we use about 40% of the corn that we grow to feed cattle, hogs, and poultry. The carbon emissions from deforestation and crop production are exacerbated by just how many animals we're eating every day. We kill 900,000 cows, 3.8 million pigs, 200, 2 million chickens, and hundreds of millions of fish for food. Not to mention the sheep, goats, ducks and other animals. And you know, to a lot of folks, eating meat feels essential to being human being at the top of the food chain. And many societies, especially western societies, meat has long been attributed with health, wealth, and even status. But over the centuries, the way we raise, procure and process meat, it's much different than it once was. I mean, McDonald's sells 6.5 million hamburgers every day. We've come a long way from the days of hunting and gathering or weekly visits to local butchers. Some regions and religions have thrived on plant-based and plant forward diets for generations. And now we're seeing more and more individuals take on more meatless lifestyles.

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How My Family Reacted: Listener Montage

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Larry (04:16): Well, back in the seventies when I was a young guy and I'd go to a Thanksgiving dinner or a Passover Seder, I got dirty looks than my grandmother didn't understand at all. That's one of the things that influenced me to just give in once a year. It was easier to just take part in a family meal and then most of the rest of the time be a vegetarian or a pescatarian.

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Diana (04:37): Well, it's funny, I tried to go vegetarian several years ago and my family was very, I don't wanna say like offended, they weren't very happy and they didn't wanna be making different food for me. So that didn't last very long. That was about a year. And then when I went vegan several years later, now they're much more open to it. So I think at least within my family, they're just better informed and more understanding. So much so that my parents are actually about, I dunno, maybe 75, 80% plant-based, which is amazing because they were some of the ones that were not, not supportive, but they were just sort of, they didn't understand like the whole why I wanted to be vegetarian at one point. And vegan seems like much more extreme to a lot of people. So it was really surprising and it was nice that they were open to it.

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Drew (05:30): I think one of the more memorable stories I have about eating less meat was watching the impact it had on my parents. And as you know, boomer Midwestern people, when I told them that my wife and I were vegetarians and we came home to visit for the summer or something, I got so many phone calls about, oh, well.

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Drew (05:51): What, what do you guys even eat? What can we possibly make for you that you could eat?

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Oh, you guys are so extreme with your vegetarianism. And I'm like, oh, we can eat literally anything. Just not me. It's not that hard. But it was such a source of anxiety for them and 'cause it was so different and new. And so I understand that. But what's been so interesting is watching now and seeing my parents say to me with pride in their voice that they are eating less meat. That they are trying to have meat free Monday or, or whatever it is that they're gonna do. And they are excited to share when they have a meal without meat in it. And that change is really motivating and it makes me optimistic for the future and what we can all do if we all just try to do a little bit better together.

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Joelle (06:43): I was really scared to take the leap because a lot of my family eats meat and my partner's family is really, really heavy duty on meat. And so I was really kind of embarrassed that I wanted to be almost vegan. And I'm just so happy that I'm not people pleasing anymore. I'm doing this for myself.

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Advice for Eating in Harmony: Listener Montage

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Katelan (07:05): Whether your circle reacts to your plant-based lifestyle with support or skepticism, our community has found tried and true ways to peacefully share meals alongside meat eaters.

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Kim (07:17): My burning climate question is how do I get my older parents to change their ways? They're in their eighties and so stuck in only what they've done their whole lives. They have no interest trying to be vegan. Even trying to be vegan for like a birthday meal once a year, or even trying to be vegan one day a week has been not an option it seems.

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Amea (07:43): I was really lucky and my mom went vegan with me when I went vegan. She also went vegetarian with me when I went vegetarian. But I was a vegan content creator for a really long time. And I had a lot of young teenagers talk to me about how they really believed in veganism. They wanted to eat a plant-based diet, but their parents were resistant to it and they lived with their parents still. And I think it's very important to remember that food is cultural and food is emotional. It is a huge part of our lives. And when you tell your parent, I want to eat vegan, I want to eat plant-based, I believe in veganism, though you are sharing something that you're passionate about, they may be receiving that as they're judging the way that I raised them. So I think one of the biggest tips I have is to approach those conversations with a lot of compassion and a lot of understanding how food is a trigger for a lot of us.

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Kellie (08:33): I think the best thing to do right away is to have that conversation with whoever you're living with and tell them why you wanna cut your meat consumption or go plant-based, giving them all the reasons why it's important to you.

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Amea (08:45): And the more easy tip, I guess, is just cook more for your family. I think a lot of people don't realize how many vegan meals they eat all the time. It just aren't labeled vegan to them. And

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Kellie (08:55): Trying to show them that you can eat delicious, nutritious and traditional foods without the animal.

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Daria (09:00): Based on my research, among the common barriers to plant centric diets are insufficient skills needed to cook vegetarian meals. If you don't have as much control over what is being served, you can try adding some simple socially acceptable staples to family dinners like Thomas or maybe more salads, frozen vegetables and so on.

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Sameera (09:24): I mean, what my husband and I do is basically we agree on, you know, a set of meals that we're gonna have over the course of the week. And then he cooks what he lovingly calls side meat <laugh>, which is basically like, you know, he'll cook up a chicken breast or, you know, make some chili or something like that, that he eats on the side in addition to what I've cooked or something that can kind of go along with what I've cooked and so that we can still eat together and not be eating separate meals. Which is something that's kind of important to me.

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Jacqueline (09:55): Two pieces of advice. One is that the way meat is viewed in our house has changed quite a bit. My husband will tell you that meat has changed to become this treat for himself. So rather than having meat with every meal, even in like some quote unquote throwaway meals, like some ground meat and tacos, we'll just make like a black bean sweet potato taco instead. And, and instead he'll have meat and these really nice meals that he's really invested in, like a nice steak. So focusing on a few really good meals and the rest of them will largely be vegetarian meals. The second thing that we do is, is on, especially on those nights where he's gonna make something nice like a steak, we have our go-to replacements that we've really figured out. And this took us some time to figure out, but there's some really fun mushrooms out there that can mimic steak or mimic scallops that are really incredible.

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But as well as like cauliflower steaks, eggplant. And those have really become our replacements. And my friends and family, how they reacted it, it actually surprised me a little bit. Most of them still eat meat, but a lot of them actually followed along with me through the journey. And honestly, that's been some the most rewarding parts of this. We love to cook. We cook with our friends, we cook with our family, and they've all figured out how to make things vegetarian or make things vegan. And, and seeing their creativity and ideas come out has been really fun and exciting and interesting. And then also being able to show off to them how delicious food can be without meat in it.

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Interview with Isaias Hernandez, queerbrownvegan

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Katelan (11:28): Jacqueline's advice really resonated with me to not use meat in those throwaway meals. And instead, if you or folks in your household want to eat meat to use it sparingly and in a way that's really special, I guess I'd call myself a flexitarian. I eat meat a few times a week and I'm working on cutting that down. So the treat meat philosophy feels like a really good step for me. I hope you found some advice that can help you eat meat free more often with the people who you love eating with. Isaiah Hernandez has been a vegan for years now. You may know him by his Instagram handle, brown Vegan. I sat down with him to hear about his motivations and experience becoming a vegan, how his family and friends reacted, and what obstacles are getting in the way of making plant-based, eating more mainstream. Hi Isaiahs.

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Isaias (12:19): Hi there.

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Katelan (12:20): Thanks for joining us today.

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Isaias (12:21): Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me.

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Katelan (12:24): So your Instagram tag is brown vegan. So naturally I wanted to start out by asking you about your vegan journey when you started going vegan and why you started going vegan.

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Isaias (12:35): Yeah, absolutely. You know, going vegan for me was something that was a very, a rarity in my lifestyle. Prior from going vegan, I used to eat and consume a lot of meat. Primarily chicken and then beef. And then I rarely consume fish. And I remember being in college back in from 2014 to 2018, I took this globalized food systems course at uc, Berkeley when I was studying environmental science. And there was a section around ethical farming. And I got to learn about like industrial agriculture, which I think everyone agreed that whether you're vegan or not, like, you know, industrial agriculture has its emissions from meat, dairy, to even fruits and vegetables. And that was something that was very compelling to me. But then we had an assignment where we had to talk about which is better for the environment, organic meat, or I would say, you know, like industrial meats versus, you know, organic farms.

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Isaias (13:33): In the research project I felt so defeated because the argument was to say which one is the better choice? And then after I realized deeper more that the animals slaughtered, I was like, well, technically, like, I guess you could say from a wellbeing standpoint, before the animals slaughtered organic farms or regenerative farms offer a better life for those animals, but they're still slaughtered. And so I, I think for me, I, I felt a bit disappointed in myself of like, is this really what I really wanna argue? And I think that I, I delved into this reflection during that time of like, as an environmentalist. I'm not here to say I don't, I don't think vegan is the solution. I think it's a part of the solution. And at the time I remember saying like, what does it really mean to be an environmentalist? And so for me, I, I saw veganism as a way to really also help save the planet. That was something that was more accessible versus I'm studying this very secular major environmental science and doing all this research, but what am I doing individually to get my word out there?

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Katelan (14:42): So when you first started a vegan lifestyle and eating more plant-based meals, did you find it difficult to keep eating the foods that you kind of like grew up eating? Like what was the hardest thing perhaps to stop, to stop eating?

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Isaias (14:55): When I was transitioning to go vegan, I share this story 'cause it's pretty funny is that I told my friends as we were graduating, I said, guys, I'm gonna go vegan. And everyone laughed at me because I, it's not that they didn't believe me, they just saw it as a very extreme thing. And it is, that's a shock. Like, it's kinda like a, a big thing. But I said, guys, don't worry. I'm gonna go vegetarian first. So I always advocate for reductionism in lifestyles because I think that for me is the most ethical but also sustainable way to curly keep your conscious together. Because I feel like there's people who can do it in one step. I was more like, I really need to go different steps. I feel that my first year as a vegan I was very much like a militant individual of like, I'm vegan.

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Like I had, I would always be that person that said I'm vegan and I, god forbid, I hate myself for that during that year 2018. But I remember that when we'd go out with friends, I, I did make an active effort just letting them know that I was vegan and that if they can help do research on restaurants that I can eat at. I think that it was embarrassing for them to feel like they were gonna be judged if they ordered something. But I I, I was a person that always felt like, I don't care what you consume, I feel that you know what you're consuming.

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Katelan (16:12): Yeah, that's really interesting. I was only thinking about talking to you about how you felt other people looked at you, but I hadn't considered how other people might think you look at them.

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Isaias (16:22): Yeah. And, and you know, to this day, you know, it's been almost years that I've been vegan now. Like it's the same thing. I mean every time I go out people are really trying to cater to my needs. And I, I am very thankful for that, but I'm also very much like, oh, it's okay. Like, you can eat anything and what you want in front of me. I'm just gonna meet my own thing.

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Katelan (16:43): Have you seen a lot of foods change over time? Like, have you seen there be more opportunities to eat the foods that you grew up eating or that your family grew up eating in a vegan way? Or is that still something you, you would like to see more of?

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Isaias (16:56): Yeah, so as a Latino vegan myself, like one of the important things I recognize is when you look back at history, you can look at where we talk, when we talk about culturally appropriate foods, people are like, what does that mean? Mean basically means like foods that we eat locally in our ecosystems and our culture is what was passed down to us. And when I was at growing up as a kid, my mom always made they're called s but mushrooms in English. And I didn't know this until I was learning more as I got older. Is that Mexico? That region, it was a large fungi board population. Really?

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Katelan (17:34): Yeah. Wow.

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Isaias (17:36): And I think that one of those, one of those things is that we realized is that in early Mesoamerica times when settlers came to Latin America, I wouldn't call it Latin America, but before it was called Latin America, they instilled this in, they saw indigenous people's diets as inferior because a lot of their diets were focused on dairy, cheese, wine. And so they, they saw these people who usually ate squash, beans, fungi of course they had some animals, but it wasn't to the extent that we have it today, they saw that as not good enough for the European diet. It's not so much these like really I'm not, I'm not asking for people to make me a plant-based chicken. I think that like, you know, I'm, I'm asking people to really understand like, yeah, locally, like these are things that I would eat. I did grow up in a heavy car normative house because my dad believed that eating meat would make you stronger or that meat is what's gonna give you all the efficiency that you need. And I, I, I believed it because I think that was what's available. But then you realize industrial meat is not something natural per se.

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Katelan (18:48): So how did your family take it whenever you told them that, that you were going vegan?

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Isaias (18:52): They said I was gonna die <laugh>.

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Katelan (18:54): No

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Isaias (18:55): <Laugh>. They, they were like, you're gonna, you're gonna end up dead. But I think that's just like a cultural norm thing. You know, even though veganism we associate to a lifestyle, sometimes people think of it as the diet, right? And people can sometimes think any type of diet is restricting my kid of something and I'm scared if my kid is restricting of something that they may end up if the eating disorder or something that's more severe. And you know, those are things where I feel that perhaps that's where my parents were coming from versus like, that's a dumb thing. It was not so much they were just, were like, okay. But I think because my sister had already been vegan before me and she still is, they were just like, I mean she's not, she's alive so I guess like, you know, she's well and I think they adapted really quickly. Like my mom and I, whenever we hang out, everything is always plant-based. Like it's never, there's never a thing where she's like, oh, you can't eat this Now she knows what I can eat, what I can't. But she never felt any way of like, you know, oh, what am I gonna feed you now? We still kept with all their traditional foods.

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Katelan (20:00): That's really great. Have there been any like new foods that you've been able to introduce to your family or your friends that are vegan that they were like surprised that they liked?

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Isaias (20:09): Yeah. One of the things I absolutely love and I didn't grow up eating this is silk in tofu and it's so versatile. Like you can use it for anything. One of the things I remember showcasing my parents of like, I mean this like tofu stir fry, like they've had tova before, but they're like, wow, you seasoned it really well to like our, you know, our flavors that we really like. And I, I feel that, you know, in my head I was just always thinking why did I feel growing up as a kid that I thought tofu was like weird or like I just, even though I looked like look would look at it, I just, I didn't think of it as delicious. And it's a plant, it's a soybean, like it's so, so good and I have it everything.

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Katelan (20:49): My last question is, I wanted to imagine for a second a world where plant-based eating is more accessible for folks. Like what does that future look like to you?

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Isaias (21:00): More local co-op grocery stores that are owned by the community that are divested away from these large industrial markets. And we have plenty of new chefs and recipe innovators who are launching their small products that are locally sourced from foods. And you get to hear the stories of how they're made, whether that was through fermentation of, of cycling, the food, baking it, freezing it. Those are things where I feel like we can all be our own grocery stores. But the second thing is that I would hope that, you know, the soils and urban gardens that people have around their communities are detoxified from harmful chemicals and lead and other carcinogens that may be left there because I know that it's not easy. And the third thing is that I would love to bring back the modern milk man model. Yes

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Katelan (21:57): Please.

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Isaias (21:57): And that needs to be done just in a different way, in a unique way. And I feel like how is it that we're able to figure out how we can get our newspaper delivered but we don't know where our plant-based milk is gonna come next. That's really something that I feel that is more locally sourced and realistic for people. Well

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Katelan (22:16): This has been so great. So illuminating. Thank you for taking the time.

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Isaias (22:21): Thank you so much for having me.

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Data-backed answers to your family's questions, with Sanchali Seth Pal

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Katelan (22:27): When you start eating more plant-based, you may be met with a whole slew of questions. So I called up commons founders, Sanchali Seth Pal for answers. Hi Sanchali.

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Sanchali (22:38): Hey Katelan.

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Katelan (22:39): So this episode isn't necessarily about convincing friends and family to join you in plant-based eating, but when folks start their plant-based eating journey, they may get lots of questions from folks in their life. So I'm wondering if you could answer some questions to give us some plant-based talking points for the dinner table.

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Sanchali (22:57): Let's do it.

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Katelan (22:58): Okay. So let's start with a climate question. What might you say if a friend asked you, does it really make an impact on the environment if you eat less meat or dairy?

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Sanchali (23:08): Yes. So eating less meat or dairy is actually one of the single most impactful actions we can take. Both because animal-based proteins are so carbon intensive and also because we choose what we're gonna eat every single day. So it's a choice we make super frequently and there's some really great research on this. I was really excited about this study that came out of the UK last year that looked at lots of different types of plant-based diets. So they looked at going fully plant-based, but they also looked at people who just cut out meat a little bit or changed the way they ate meat. And what they found is that going fully plant-based, like totally vegan Nome dairy could reduce people's food emissions by 75%. And that's even in the UK where people eat less meat than we do in the us. Mm. So going vegan is like hugely impactful, but even vegetarians were able to reduce their food emissions by about 60%. Wow. Pescatarians reduced their food emissions by over half mm. And even just reducing meat consumption, like eating meat, about half as much reduced emissions by about 45%.

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Katelan (24:08): That's impressive.

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Sanchali (24:09): Really exciting and really impressive. If you wanna be even more motivated, like another way to think about this would be an average American lives for about 76 years and could save about 250 tons of carbon over the course of their whole lifetime if they go vegetarian. That's a lot. And and to put that in context, if an average US meat eater wanted to have the same impact as going vegetarian in some other way, they'd have to avoid driving for over 50 years of their life.

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Katelan (24:37): Whoa. That's huge. So I've heard some folks are concerned about what will happen to all these animals if we suddenly stop eating meat.

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Sanchali (24:47): Well, it's not like we're eating many wild animals. So 99% of our meat is coming from factory farms. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and factory farms. Their whole business is to breed raise and slaughter animals. It's actually like a pretty brutal and terrible existence for those animals. So I mean the livestock that's raised to me, meat wouldn't really be around if the meat industry didn't exist. It's not like naturally we have that much livestock in the US right? I mean actually there are a hundred billion animals raised and killed for meat and animal products every year. And if we ate humans at the same rate at which we ate animals, our whole population would be extinct in about four weeks.

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Katelan (25:31): That's an alarming thought. <Laugh>. Wow. Another concern that people get, and we actually heard from Isaiahs earlier, is that their family especially may be concerned for their health when they start going plant-based. I was wondering if there's any evidence that a plant-based diet can be just as healthy as an omnivore diet?

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Sanchali (25:51): Oh my gosh. My family was worried about the same thing. I'm not even fully vegetarian. I still eat meat one meal a week. But what's even funnier to me is that my family's originally from India and estimates vary, but something like 20 to 35% of the Indian population is vegetarian <laugh>, like including my own grandfather <laugh>. And my parents still have this conception that vegetarian diets are somehow bad for you. So I mean, I really don't blame people for thinking this. I think it's really common. But the truth is, medical research shows that plant-based diets are actually one of the most cost-effective tactics to improve health outcomes. Hmm. They are proven to lower blood pressure, improve cholesterol, reduce risk of chronic diseases, and especially including heart disease, which is the leading cause of death in the us. But of course when you're switching your diet, you do have to make sure you're getting enough protein and it definitely takes getting used to and sort of like thinking about how you're gonna cook for yourself in a way that's more balanced and can focus on whole foods and sort of limit processed and refined foods. Just like if you were eating meat as well.

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Katelan (26:55): Yeah. I mean the

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Sanchali (26:56): Other part of why plant-based diets make sense is 'cause it's just more efficient. Like meat doesn't give us as much bang for our buck or for our acreage.

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Katelan (27:04): Hmm. What do you mean?

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Sanchali (27:05): Well, animal agriculture takes up 83% of global agricultural land, but only 18% of our calorie supply. One thing like Pat Brown, the founder of Impossible Foods always says is that animals are extremely inefficient food technologies like a cow is not an efficient way to get out the type of nutrition that we need as humans.

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Katelan (27:26): Well, I mean like we often hear though about like regeneratively raised meat. Is there a benefit to that?

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Sanchali (27:31): Regenerative meat is definitely better for soil and for animals. It can help restore carbon to soil and avoid degradation of land. So it can definitely be a big step in the right direction, but it's not perfect. Regenerative farming uses twice as much land as traditional farming. And so we definitely need to pair regenerative farming with just cutting down on overall meat consumption. Because if we were to continue eating as much meat as we do now, but only get it from regenerative farms, livestock would take up 82% of us land.

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Katelan (28:04): Oh my gosh. That's <laugh>. That's a lot of space for a lot of animals.

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Sanchali (28:09): <Laugh>.

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Katelan (28:10): It's wild that, you know, we eat food every day and every time we choose what we eat, we're making a choice that has such a big impact.

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Sanchali (28:18): Yeah. And it's such a quintessential daily choice. It's such a big part of our daily happiness and our daily routines. It can be really hard for friends and family to accept at first. And food is a really social thing that we do with other people. So it is really important. I mean, it's really unusual that we can make food choices without affecting other people we care about in our life. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So it's super important to talk to your friends and family about it, for them to understand your reasoning and the positive impact you're having for the environment, for animals, for your health, and whether or not they wanna join you, hopefully they'll better understand your perspective.

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Katelan (28:53): Yeah, I hope so. Thank you for offering your perspective and giving us all this extra context.

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Sanchali (28:58): Thanks for the conversation.

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Katelan (29:04):

Some of our most memorable celebrations and traditions happen around food. And as we eat more plant-based, it could be that we find new foods to enjoy in these big moments, or it could be that we make some occasional exceptions. But look, the most sustainable habit is the one that you can stick to. And I hope this episode gave you some tools to help you stick to your plant-based eating plans no matter who you're eating with. And if you enjoy this episode, especially if you're just starting out on your plant-based eating journey, I really think you'll enjoy listening to episode one. Does it really matter if we eat less meat throughout this season? It was honestly an honor and a privilege to hear from listeners around the world who are living their own kinds of sustainable lives and sharing it with others, including us today. You heard from:

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If you've enjoyed the show and you want us to keep it going, I have three requests for you. Number one, please submit to the show. We make it really easy. Go to the Commons earth slash podcast and click submit to the show. You tell us the topics you wanna talk about and we'll email you some questions based on those topics. Then you just answer the questions in a voice memo. Boom. Number two, review and rate the show. We really wanna know what you think and ratings and reviews help us know if you're digging the show and if we're on the right track. Finally, number three, follow the show on Instagram at Second Nature Earth. Common social media manager, Amaya Wadsworth, will be sharing all kinds of practical and inspirational sustainability content in between seasons. So if you like the show, you're gonna like our Instagram, our editor and engineer on this episode. And every episode this season has been the one, the only Evan Goodghild. It was written and produced by me, Katelan Cunningham. Until next season, we'll end on a last word about plant-based eating from Kelly Rana in Saskatoon Canada.

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Kellie (31:12):

I feel like I'm actually seeing this domino effect within my own circle and it's a great feeling because you realize just how powerful one person's actions can be and all the people it can have an effect on. And I just hope that that carries on through their circles.

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My Biggest Obstacle to Plant-based Eating? My Family.

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We heard from listeners that one of the top barriers to eating plant based is who we eat with. So much of our food is rooted in culture and tradition and breaking from the norms of our social circles may create some dinner table friction. But we’re here to help!

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On this episode, you’ll hear:

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Listeners share how they’re family reacted when they started eating plant-based.
Tried and true advice on how to eat in harmony with meat eaters.
How Isaias Hernandez’s family reacted when he became vegan and what his vision of a more equitable plant-based future looks like.
Data-backed responses to the most common questions you mat get as a first-time plant-based eater.

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‍Find Second Nature wherever you listen to podcasts: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

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Here are some of the people you'll hear from in this episode:

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Citations and further reading

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Episode credits

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Listener contributions: Amea Wadsworth, Daria Panova, Diana Holguin, Drew Crabtree, Jacqueline Elliott, Joëlle Provost, Kellie Rana, Kimberly Foley, Lawrence Hott, Sameera Mokkarala, Zach Lawson‍
Featuring: Isaias Hernandez and Sanchali Seth Pal‍
Editing and engineer: Evan Goodchild‍
Hosting and production: Katelan Cunningham

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Full Transcript

Katelan (00:00): Hi, welcome back to Second Nature. This is a podcast from Commons where we talk to people about how they're living sustainably in an unsustainable world. Believe it or not, this is the last episode of the first ever season of Second Nature. It's been such a joy listening to dozens of community submissions and chatting about the topics that chill are passionate about. If you're with us from the beginning, you'll remember that episode one was all about how to start a plant-based eating journey. So we wanted to end where we started. We heard time and time again from listeners that one of the biggest obstacles to starting a plant-based diet wasn't motivation or accessibility. It was family and friends.

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(00:45): I'm your host, Katelan Cunningham, and on this episode of Second Nature, we're talking about how to talk about plant-based eating with our friends and family. We're gonna hear firsthand stories from our community about what happened when they told their friends and family that they wanted to start eating plant-based. And they're giving us some great advice for how to eat in harmony alongside meat eaters. Plus, I'm sitting down with Isaiah Hernandez, AKA brown vegan to hear how his family reacted to his vegan lifestyle. Get tips for having tough conversations with friends and envision what a more accessible future looks like for plant-based eating. I'm also asking Char St. Paul for some plant-based talking points for the dinner table. Here we go.

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(01:32): So, does meat really have that big of an impact on the planet? It definitely does. Meat has a much higher carbon footprint than plant-based proteins. Let me give you an example. 100 grams of beef protein has 190 times the emissions of 100 grams of nut protein. And there are several reasons why animals rack up more missions than plants first deforestation. We are clearing millions of acres of tropical forest each year to create pasture land for cattle. In just four years, from 2010 to 2014, we cleared over 20 million acres globally. That's about the size of Ireland. When we clear that land, we remove billions of plants that are absorbing carbon, and we deteriorate the soil making it less adept for carbon sequestration. We also destroy habitats and ecosystems that are home to thousands of plant animal and fungi species. Another big climate impact of eating animals is that we have to grow a lot of crops to feed them, and we generate a lot of emissions in the process globally, 77% of soy is grown to feed livestock for meat and dairy production.

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(02:41): Can you believe that? And here in the US we use about 40% of the corn that we grow to feed cattle, hogs, and poultry. The carbon emissions from deforestation and crop production are exacerbated by just how many animals we're eating every day. We kill 900,000 cows, 3.8 million pigs, 200, 2 million chickens, and hundreds of millions of fish for food. Not to mention the sheep, goats, ducks and other animals. And you know, to a lot of folks, eating meat feels essential to being human being at the top of the food chain. And many societies, especially western societies, meat has long been attributed with health, wealth, and even status. But over the centuries, the way we raise, procure and process meat, it's much different than it once was. I mean, McDonald's sells 6.5 million hamburgers every day. We've come a long way from the days of hunting and gathering or weekly visits to local butchers. Some regions and religions have thrived on plant-based and plant forward diets for generations. And now we're seeing more and more individuals take on more meatless lifestyles.

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How My Family Reacted: Listener Montage

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Larry (04:16): Well, back in the seventies when I was a young guy and I'd go to a Thanksgiving dinner or a Passover Seder, I got dirty looks than my grandmother didn't understand at all. That's one of the things that influenced me to just give in once a year. It was easier to just take part in a family meal and then most of the rest of the time be a vegetarian or a pescatarian.

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Diana (04:37): Well, it's funny, I tried to go vegetarian several years ago and my family was very, I don't wanna say like offended, they weren't very happy and they didn't wanna be making different food for me. So that didn't last very long. That was about a year. And then when I went vegan several years later, now they're much more open to it. So I think at least within my family, they're just better informed and more understanding. So much so that my parents are actually about, I dunno, maybe 75, 80% plant-based, which is amazing because they were some of the ones that were not, not supportive, but they were just sort of, they didn't understand like the whole why I wanted to be vegetarian at one point. And vegan seems like much more extreme to a lot of people. So it was really surprising and it was nice that they were open to it.

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Drew (05:30): I think one of the more memorable stories I have about eating less meat was watching the impact it had on my parents. And as you know, boomer Midwestern people, when I told them that my wife and I were vegetarians and we came home to visit for the summer or something, I got so many phone calls about, oh, well.

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Drew (05:51): What, what do you guys even eat? What can we possibly make for you that you could eat?

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Oh, you guys are so extreme with your vegetarianism. And I'm like, oh, we can eat literally anything. Just not me. It's not that hard. But it was such a source of anxiety for them and 'cause it was so different and new. And so I understand that. But what's been so interesting is watching now and seeing my parents say to me with pride in their voice that they are eating less meat. That they are trying to have meat free Monday or, or whatever it is that they're gonna do. And they are excited to share when they have a meal without meat in it. And that change is really motivating and it makes me optimistic for the future and what we can all do if we all just try to do a little bit better together.

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Joelle (06:43): I was really scared to take the leap because a lot of my family eats meat and my partner's family is really, really heavy duty on meat. And so I was really kind of embarrassed that I wanted to be almost vegan. And I'm just so happy that I'm not people pleasing anymore. I'm doing this for myself.

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Advice for Eating in Harmony: Listener Montage

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Katelan (07:05): Whether your circle reacts to your plant-based lifestyle with support or skepticism, our community has found tried and true ways to peacefully share meals alongside meat eaters.

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Kim (07:17): My burning climate question is how do I get my older parents to change their ways? They're in their eighties and so stuck in only what they've done their whole lives. They have no interest trying to be vegan. Even trying to be vegan for like a birthday meal once a year, or even trying to be vegan one day a week has been not an option it seems.

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Amea (07:43): I was really lucky and my mom went vegan with me when I went vegan. She also went vegetarian with me when I went vegetarian. But I was a vegan content creator for a really long time. And I had a lot of young teenagers talk to me about how they really believed in veganism. They wanted to eat a plant-based diet, but their parents were resistant to it and they lived with their parents still. And I think it's very important to remember that food is cultural and food is emotional. It is a huge part of our lives. And when you tell your parent, I want to eat vegan, I want to eat plant-based, I believe in veganism, though you are sharing something that you're passionate about, they may be receiving that as they're judging the way that I raised them. So I think one of the biggest tips I have is to approach those conversations with a lot of compassion and a lot of understanding how food is a trigger for a lot of us.

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Kellie (08:33): I think the best thing to do right away is to have that conversation with whoever you're living with and tell them why you wanna cut your meat consumption or go plant-based, giving them all the reasons why it's important to you.

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Amea (08:45): And the more easy tip, I guess, is just cook more for your family. I think a lot of people don't realize how many vegan meals they eat all the time. It just aren't labeled vegan to them. And

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Kellie (08:55): Trying to show them that you can eat delicious, nutritious and traditional foods without the animal.

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Daria (09:00): Based on my research, among the common barriers to plant centric diets are insufficient skills needed to cook vegetarian meals. If you don't have as much control over what is being served, you can try adding some simple socially acceptable staples to family dinners like Thomas or maybe more salads, frozen vegetables and so on.

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Sameera (09:24): I mean, what my husband and I do is basically we agree on, you know, a set of meals that we're gonna have over the course of the week. And then he cooks what he lovingly calls side meat <laugh>, which is basically like, you know, he'll cook up a chicken breast or, you know, make some chili or something like that, that he eats on the side in addition to what I've cooked or something that can kind of go along with what I've cooked and so that we can still eat together and not be eating separate meals. Which is something that's kind of important to me.

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Jacqueline (09:55): Two pieces of advice. One is that the way meat is viewed in our house has changed quite a bit. My husband will tell you that meat has changed to become this treat for himself. So rather than having meat with every meal, even in like some quote unquote throwaway meals, like some ground meat and tacos, we'll just make like a black bean sweet potato taco instead. And, and instead he'll have meat and these really nice meals that he's really invested in, like a nice steak. So focusing on a few really good meals and the rest of them will largely be vegetarian meals. The second thing that we do is, is on, especially on those nights where he's gonna make something nice like a steak, we have our go-to replacements that we've really figured out. And this took us some time to figure out, but there's some really fun mushrooms out there that can mimic steak or mimic scallops that are really incredible.

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But as well as like cauliflower steaks, eggplant. And those have really become our replacements. And my friends and family, how they reacted it, it actually surprised me a little bit. Most of them still eat meat, but a lot of them actually followed along with me through the journey. And honestly, that's been some the most rewarding parts of this. We love to cook. We cook with our friends, we cook with our family, and they've all figured out how to make things vegetarian or make things vegan. And, and seeing their creativity and ideas come out has been really fun and exciting and interesting. And then also being able to show off to them how delicious food can be without meat in it.

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Interview with Isaias Hernandez, queerbrownvegan

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Katelan (11:28): Jacqueline's advice really resonated with me to not use meat in those throwaway meals. And instead, if you or folks in your household want to eat meat to use it sparingly and in a way that's really special, I guess I'd call myself a flexitarian. I eat meat a few times a week and I'm working on cutting that down. So the treat meat philosophy feels like a really good step for me. I hope you found some advice that can help you eat meat free more often with the people who you love eating with. Isaiah Hernandez has been a vegan for years now. You may know him by his Instagram handle, brown Vegan. I sat down with him to hear about his motivations and experience becoming a vegan, how his family and friends reacted, and what obstacles are getting in the way of making plant-based, eating more mainstream. Hi Isaiahs.

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Isaias (12:19): Hi there.

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Katelan (12:20): Thanks for joining us today.

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Isaias (12:21): Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me.

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Katelan (12:24): So your Instagram tag is brown vegan. So naturally I wanted to start out by asking you about your vegan journey when you started going vegan and why you started going vegan.

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Isaias (12:35): Yeah, absolutely. You know, going vegan for me was something that was a very, a rarity in my lifestyle. Prior from going vegan, I used to eat and consume a lot of meat. Primarily chicken and then beef. And then I rarely consume fish. And I remember being in college back in from 2014 to 2018, I took this globalized food systems course at uc, Berkeley when I was studying environmental science. And there was a section around ethical farming. And I got to learn about like industrial agriculture, which I think everyone agreed that whether you're vegan or not, like, you know, industrial agriculture has its emissions from meat, dairy, to even fruits and vegetables. And that was something that was very compelling to me. But then we had an assignment where we had to talk about which is better for the environment, organic meat, or I would say, you know, like industrial meats versus, you know, organic farms.

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Isaias (13:33): In the research project I felt so defeated because the argument was to say which one is the better choice? And then after I realized deeper more that the animals slaughtered, I was like, well, technically, like, I guess you could say from a wellbeing standpoint, before the animals slaughtered organic farms or regenerative farms offer a better life for those animals, but they're still slaughtered. And so I, I think for me, I, I felt a bit disappointed in myself of like, is this really what I really wanna argue? And I think that I, I delved into this reflection during that time of like, as an environmentalist. I'm not here to say I don't, I don't think vegan is the solution. I think it's a part of the solution. And at the time I remember saying like, what does it really mean to be an environmentalist? And so for me, I, I saw veganism as a way to really also help save the planet. That was something that was more accessible versus I'm studying this very secular major environmental science and doing all this research, but what am I doing individually to get my word out there?

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Katelan (14:42): So when you first started a vegan lifestyle and eating more plant-based meals, did you find it difficult to keep eating the foods that you kind of like grew up eating? Like what was the hardest thing perhaps to stop, to stop eating?

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Isaias (14:55): When I was transitioning to go vegan, I share this story 'cause it's pretty funny is that I told my friends as we were graduating, I said, guys, I'm gonna go vegan. And everyone laughed at me because I, it's not that they didn't believe me, they just saw it as a very extreme thing. And it is, that's a shock. Like, it's kinda like a, a big thing. But I said, guys, don't worry. I'm gonna go vegetarian first. So I always advocate for reductionism in lifestyles because I think that for me is the most ethical but also sustainable way to curly keep your conscious together. Because I feel like there's people who can do it in one step. I was more like, I really need to go different steps. I feel that my first year as a vegan I was very much like a militant individual of like, I'm vegan.

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Like I had, I would always be that person that said I'm vegan and I, god forbid, I hate myself for that during that year 2018. But I remember that when we'd go out with friends, I, I did make an active effort just letting them know that I was vegan and that if they can help do research on restaurants that I can eat at. I think that it was embarrassing for them to feel like they were gonna be judged if they ordered something. But I I, I was a person that always felt like, I don't care what you consume, I feel that you know what you're consuming.

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Katelan (16:12): Yeah, that's really interesting. I was only thinking about talking to you about how you felt other people looked at you, but I hadn't considered how other people might think you look at them.

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Isaias (16:22): Yeah. And, and you know, to this day, you know, it's been almost years that I've been vegan now. Like it's the same thing. I mean every time I go out people are really trying to cater to my needs. And I, I am very thankful for that, but I'm also very much like, oh, it's okay. Like, you can eat anything and what you want in front of me. I'm just gonna meet my own thing.

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Katelan (16:43): Have you seen a lot of foods change over time? Like, have you seen there be more opportunities to eat the foods that you grew up eating or that your family grew up eating in a vegan way? Or is that still something you, you would like to see more of?

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Isaias (16:56): Yeah, so as a Latino vegan myself, like one of the important things I recognize is when you look back at history, you can look at where we talk, when we talk about culturally appropriate foods, people are like, what does that mean? Mean basically means like foods that we eat locally in our ecosystems and our culture is what was passed down to us. And when I was at growing up as a kid, my mom always made they're called s but mushrooms in English. And I didn't know this until I was learning more as I got older. Is that Mexico? That region, it was a large fungi board population. Really?

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Katelan (17:34): Yeah. Wow.

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Isaias (17:36): And I think that one of those, one of those things is that we realized is that in early Mesoamerica times when settlers came to Latin America, I wouldn't call it Latin America, but before it was called Latin America, they instilled this in, they saw indigenous people's diets as inferior because a lot of their diets were focused on dairy, cheese, wine. And so they, they saw these people who usually ate squash, beans, fungi of course they had some animals, but it wasn't to the extent that we have it today, they saw that as not good enough for the European diet. It's not so much these like really I'm not, I'm not asking for people to make me a plant-based chicken. I think that like, you know, I'm, I'm asking people to really understand like, yeah, locally, like these are things that I would eat. I did grow up in a heavy car normative house because my dad believed that eating meat would make you stronger or that meat is what's gonna give you all the efficiency that you need. And I, I, I believed it because I think that was what's available. But then you realize industrial meat is not something natural per se.

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Katelan (18:48): So how did your family take it whenever you told them that, that you were going vegan?

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Isaias (18:52): They said I was gonna die <laugh>.

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Katelan (18:54): No

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Isaias (18:55): <Laugh>. They, they were like, you're gonna, you're gonna end up dead. But I think that's just like a cultural norm thing. You know, even though veganism we associate to a lifestyle, sometimes people think of it as the diet, right? And people can sometimes think any type of diet is restricting my kid of something and I'm scared if my kid is restricting of something that they may end up if the eating disorder or something that's more severe. And you know, those are things where I feel that perhaps that's where my parents were coming from versus like, that's a dumb thing. It was not so much they were just, were like, okay. But I think because my sister had already been vegan before me and she still is, they were just like, I mean she's not, she's alive so I guess like, you know, she's well and I think they adapted really quickly. Like my mom and I, whenever we hang out, everything is always plant-based. Like it's never, there's never a thing where she's like, oh, you can't eat this Now she knows what I can eat, what I can't. But she never felt any way of like, you know, oh, what am I gonna feed you now? We still kept with all their traditional foods.

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Katelan (20:00): That's really great. Have there been any like new foods that you've been able to introduce to your family or your friends that are vegan that they were like surprised that they liked?

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Isaias (20:09): Yeah. One of the things I absolutely love and I didn't grow up eating this is silk in tofu and it's so versatile. Like you can use it for anything. One of the things I remember showcasing my parents of like, I mean this like tofu stir fry, like they've had tova before, but they're like, wow, you seasoned it really well to like our, you know, our flavors that we really like. And I, I feel that, you know, in my head I was just always thinking why did I feel growing up as a kid that I thought tofu was like weird or like I just, even though I looked like look would look at it, I just, I didn't think of it as delicious. And it's a plant, it's a soybean, like it's so, so good and I have it everything.

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Katelan (20:49): My last question is, I wanted to imagine for a second a world where plant-based eating is more accessible for folks. Like what does that future look like to you?

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Isaias (21:00): More local co-op grocery stores that are owned by the community that are divested away from these large industrial markets. And we have plenty of new chefs and recipe innovators who are launching their small products that are locally sourced from foods. And you get to hear the stories of how they're made, whether that was through fermentation of, of cycling, the food, baking it, freezing it. Those are things where I feel like we can all be our own grocery stores. But the second thing is that I would hope that, you know, the soils and urban gardens that people have around their communities are detoxified from harmful chemicals and lead and other carcinogens that may be left there because I know that it's not easy. And the third thing is that I would love to bring back the modern milk man model. Yes

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Katelan (21:57): Please.

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Isaias (21:57): And that needs to be done just in a different way, in a unique way. And I feel like how is it that we're able to figure out how we can get our newspaper delivered but we don't know where our plant-based milk is gonna come next. That's really something that I feel that is more locally sourced and realistic for people. Well

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Katelan (22:16): This has been so great. So illuminating. Thank you for taking the time.

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Isaias (22:21): Thank you so much for having me.

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Data-backed answers to your family's questions, with Sanchali Seth Pal

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Katelan (22:27): When you start eating more plant-based, you may be met with a whole slew of questions. So I called up commons founders, Sanchali Seth Pal for answers. Hi Sanchali.

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Sanchali (22:38): Hey Katelan.

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Katelan (22:39): So this episode isn't necessarily about convincing friends and family to join you in plant-based eating, but when folks start their plant-based eating journey, they may get lots of questions from folks in their life. So I'm wondering if you could answer some questions to give us some plant-based talking points for the dinner table.

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Sanchali (22:57): Let's do it.

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Katelan (22:58): Okay. So let's start with a climate question. What might you say if a friend asked you, does it really make an impact on the environment if you eat less meat or dairy?

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Sanchali (23:08): Yes. So eating less meat or dairy is actually one of the single most impactful actions we can take. Both because animal-based proteins are so carbon intensive and also because we choose what we're gonna eat every single day. So it's a choice we make super frequently and there's some really great research on this. I was really excited about this study that came out of the UK last year that looked at lots of different types of plant-based diets. So they looked at going fully plant-based, but they also looked at people who just cut out meat a little bit or changed the way they ate meat. And what they found is that going fully plant-based, like totally vegan Nome dairy could reduce people's food emissions by 75%. And that's even in the UK where people eat less meat than we do in the us. Mm. So going vegan is like hugely impactful, but even vegetarians were able to reduce their food emissions by about 60%. Wow. Pescatarians reduced their food emissions by over half mm. And even just reducing meat consumption, like eating meat, about half as much reduced emissions by about 45%.

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Katelan (24:08): That's impressive.

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Sanchali (24:09): Really exciting and really impressive. If you wanna be even more motivated, like another way to think about this would be an average American lives for about 76 years and could save about 250 tons of carbon over the course of their whole lifetime if they go vegetarian. That's a lot. And and to put that in context, if an average US meat eater wanted to have the same impact as going vegetarian in some other way, they'd have to avoid driving for over 50 years of their life.

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Katelan (24:37): Whoa. That's huge. So I've heard some folks are concerned about what will happen to all these animals if we suddenly stop eating meat.

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Sanchali (24:47): Well, it's not like we're eating many wild animals. So 99% of our meat is coming from factory farms. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and factory farms. Their whole business is to breed raise and slaughter animals. It's actually like a pretty brutal and terrible existence for those animals. So I mean the livestock that's raised to me, meat wouldn't really be around if the meat industry didn't exist. It's not like naturally we have that much livestock in the US right? I mean actually there are a hundred billion animals raised and killed for meat and animal products every year. And if we ate humans at the same rate at which we ate animals, our whole population would be extinct in about four weeks.

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Katelan (25:31): That's an alarming thought. <Laugh>. Wow. Another concern that people get, and we actually heard from Isaiahs earlier, is that their family especially may be concerned for their health when they start going plant-based. I was wondering if there's any evidence that a plant-based diet can be just as healthy as an omnivore diet?

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Sanchali (25:51): Oh my gosh. My family was worried about the same thing. I'm not even fully vegetarian. I still eat meat one meal a week. But what's even funnier to me is that my family's originally from India and estimates vary, but something like 20 to 35% of the Indian population is vegetarian <laugh>, like including my own grandfather <laugh>. And my parents still have this conception that vegetarian diets are somehow bad for you. So I mean, I really don't blame people for thinking this. I think it's really common. But the truth is, medical research shows that plant-based diets are actually one of the most cost-effective tactics to improve health outcomes. Hmm. They are proven to lower blood pressure, improve cholesterol, reduce risk of chronic diseases, and especially including heart disease, which is the leading cause of death in the us. But of course when you're switching your diet, you do have to make sure you're getting enough protein and it definitely takes getting used to and sort of like thinking about how you're gonna cook for yourself in a way that's more balanced and can focus on whole foods and sort of limit processed and refined foods. Just like if you were eating meat as well.

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Katelan (26:55): Yeah. I mean the

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Sanchali (26:56): Other part of why plant-based diets make sense is 'cause it's just more efficient. Like meat doesn't give us as much bang for our buck or for our acreage.

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Katelan (27:04): Hmm. What do you mean?

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Sanchali (27:05): Well, animal agriculture takes up 83% of global agricultural land, but only 18% of our calorie supply. One thing like Pat Brown, the founder of Impossible Foods always says is that animals are extremely inefficient food technologies like a cow is not an efficient way to get out the type of nutrition that we need as humans.

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Katelan (27:26): Well, I mean like we often hear though about like regeneratively raised meat. Is there a benefit to that?

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Sanchali (27:31): Regenerative meat is definitely better for soil and for animals. It can help restore carbon to soil and avoid degradation of land. So it can definitely be a big step in the right direction, but it's not perfect. Regenerative farming uses twice as much land as traditional farming. And so we definitely need to pair regenerative farming with just cutting down on overall meat consumption. Because if we were to continue eating as much meat as we do now, but only get it from regenerative farms, livestock would take up 82% of us land.

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Katelan (28:04): Oh my gosh. That's <laugh>. That's a lot of space for a lot of animals.

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Sanchali (28:09): <Laugh>.

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Katelan (28:10): It's wild that, you know, we eat food every day and every time we choose what we eat, we're making a choice that has such a big impact.

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Sanchali (28:18): Yeah. And it's such a quintessential daily choice. It's such a big part of our daily happiness and our daily routines. It can be really hard for friends and family to accept at first. And food is a really social thing that we do with other people. So it is really important. I mean, it's really unusual that we can make food choices without affecting other people we care about in our life. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So it's super important to talk to your friends and family about it, for them to understand your reasoning and the positive impact you're having for the environment, for animals, for your health, and whether or not they wanna join you, hopefully they'll better understand your perspective.

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Katelan (28:53): Yeah, I hope so. Thank you for offering your perspective and giving us all this extra context.

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Sanchali (28:58): Thanks for the conversation.

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Katelan (29:04):

Some of our most memorable celebrations and traditions happen around food. And as we eat more plant-based, it could be that we find new foods to enjoy in these big moments, or it could be that we make some occasional exceptions. But look, the most sustainable habit is the one that you can stick to. And I hope this episode gave you some tools to help you stick to your plant-based eating plans no matter who you're eating with. And if you enjoy this episode, especially if you're just starting out on your plant-based eating journey, I really think you'll enjoy listening to episode one. Does it really matter if we eat less meat throughout this season? It was honestly an honor and a privilege to hear from listeners around the world who are living their own kinds of sustainable lives and sharing it with others, including us today. You heard from:

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If you've enjoyed the show and you want us to keep it going, I have three requests for you. Number one, please submit to the show. We make it really easy. Go to the Commons earth slash podcast and click submit to the show. You tell us the topics you wanna talk about and we'll email you some questions based on those topics. Then you just answer the questions in a voice memo. Boom. Number two, review and rate the show. We really wanna know what you think and ratings and reviews help us know if you're digging the show and if we're on the right track. Finally, number three, follow the show on Instagram at Second Nature Earth. Common social media manager, Amaya Wadsworth, will be sharing all kinds of practical and inspirational sustainability content in between seasons. So if you like the show, you're gonna like our Instagram, our editor and engineer on this episode. And every episode this season has been the one, the only Evan Goodghild. It was written and produced by me, Katelan Cunningham. Until next season, we'll end on a last word about plant-based eating from Kelly Rana in Saskatoon Canada.

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Kellie (31:12):

I feel like I'm actually seeing this domino effect within my own circle and it's a great feeling because you realize just how powerful one person's actions can be and all the people it can have an effect on. And I just hope that that carries on through their circles.

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